Out Here Tryna Survive
This podcast is a trauma-informed, hope-oriented, safe space. It is a warm hug of solidarity for Black women 35+. It is a celebration of our resilience thus far & our determination to not only survive but THRIVE.
Join me, Grace Sandra, a Mama, author, advocate/activist, storyteller, for some good ole self-love shenanigans.
We are braver than we believe✨
Out Here Tryna Survive
Ep 28: An Unexpected Alliance: From Dating The Same Man To Girlfrans?!
Connect with Lily!
Website - https://www.bodyintelligenceacademy.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/bodyintelligence_academy
Her Medium article- https://medium.com/@lily_56950/love-bombs-and-red-flags-a-story-about-self-trust-703e50041bbc
What happens when two women discover they've been manipulated by the same man? In this raw, intimate conversation, we meet Lily - a woman who had a brief encounter with the Grace's ex-husband years before their marriage. When Grace discovered her then-husband was obsessively creating disturbing artwork featuring Lily's face and planning to sell it, she reached out with a warning. What blossomed was an unexpected friendship and a powerful testament to female solidarity.
The conversation takes us through the disturbing reality of how manipulative partners create false narratives about former relationships. The host's ex-husband maintained a years-long fixation on Lily, even painting a violent portrait that began as a beautiful image but evolved into something grotesque over time. This obsession became a tool for emotional abuse in his marriage, as he would taunt his wife by comparing her to Lily and suggesting she was trying to imitate her.
Beyond the shared trauma, this episode reveals Lily's remarkable journey from professional dancer to somatic coach and creator of the Body Intelligence Collective. Her work helps women reconnect with their bodies through movement, especially after experiencing trauma or disconnection. Lily shares how movement became her pathway to healing after her own divorce, as it allowed her to process emotions that couldn't be resolved through traditional talking therapies.
Both women discuss society's tendency to define women by their relationships with men and how they've found strength in rejecting these limitations. Lily explains why she fired a marketing person who insisted on featuring her husband prominently in her business materials, believing women would only be interested in her work if it promised a "happily ever after" with a partner.
This conversation offers a message of hope: even from painful experiences, beautiful connections can emerge. As Lily puts it in the closing moments, "Create a quiet space where you can hear yourself...get in nature, and move a little bit. It doesn't have to be a huge movement practice...just be able to hear yourself."
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So second profile picture was a picture of him and Lily on a vacation that they had taken a couple months earlier and you know I could see the date too. So I'm like, oh, there was one time he came home and I had on like a long curly purple wig and my Detroit because I'm from Detroit so like a Detroit Lions hat or whatever. And he came in and he looked at me and he was like you did that on purpose. And I was like what? And he was like like you're trying to look like Lily? And I was like I'm not, babe, I swear I'm not trying to look like Lily. Oh, my god, how awful on Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2:um, I see all his paintings and I notice a painting of you and he told me that he was working on a painting of me. And again, I knew that there was a painting, but I at at first, my first reaction was like this is weird.
Speaker 1:Bitch, get out my, get it, get out my deals and deal with your husband.
Speaker 2:That's what he said to me, like basically the reason you need people to buy in and women are not going to buy into this work unless you know you tie it to happily ever after and having a partner. You know they're not just going to want to do this work for themselves and I just thought that was such a good afternoon and welcome to the out here trying to survive podcast episode 28.
Speaker 1:So today I'm doing something a little bit different. This is my first ever interview. I'm a little bit nervous, but we gonna get through it. And I'm interviewing a woman who my ex-husband used to date. It became this real big, super messy situation which ended in Lily and I becoming actually really good friends good friends. So I want to share this interview with you. Oh, girl, we had a time. We talked about a lot of stuff, so buckle up. We shared the whole in-depth detail of how it got super messy with my ex.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, let me introduce you to Lily Shepard. Lily is a somatic coach, she's a dancer, she's an artist, she's a writer, she's an author and she's the creator of the Body Intelligence Collective, which is a movement for women to explore their body and their sensuality and all sorts of things. And she's the author of a book called Pleasure Principles for Driven Women and she speaks a lot to career driven women who are really interested in healing fully and centering yourself fully. She's an amazing writer, an amazing person all around, and I'm so glad we met. Our paths would not have collided if it weren't for my tribal next husband, so I hope you will stay around and listen to this amazing interview without further ado.
Speaker 1:So, basically, what happened was met my ex-husband December 14th 2014. So almost 10, 10 years ago, long time ago, and we were together. He was love bombing. We were together, we were a couple before Christmas. So we became Facebook friends. I realized, you know, I was. You know, when you become new boyfriend, I'm like, okay, let me look through all his Facebook stuff. So second profile picture was a picture of him and Lily on a vacation that they had taken a couple months earlier. And, you know, I could see the date too.
Speaker 2:So I'm like, oh, and that's crazy and let me stop you there because that's crazy that was not even a vacation. He just that's where I lived, like I lived in Vegas and he came to Vegas. So yeah, and it's crazy that that was a profile picture, because I felt a way about I'll get to that point when we come to it, but I felt a way about even being like on his page and being tagged in photos and stuff. But it wasn't a vacation, it was just I lived in Vegas and he had come to see me.
Speaker 1:Right. So but for me I'm like, well, this is significant, especially since in those two weeks we went from just meeting to hot and heavy in two weeks. So I'm like this is significant. Why didn't you tell me about this? So he was just like, oh, because she's just a vampire. So he kind of wrote it off as it was just this little thing and I realized she was such a terrible woman and she was such a liar and all she wanted was her ex-boyfriend and she was just using me, and so we didn't talk about it. Yet I kind of knew and, like I said before, I had a, I had kind of a bad feeling, but I was also in the beginning and I wanted to believe him. Ok, I wanted to believe him. Okay, I wanted to.
Speaker 1:And I regret so much. Let me just say that up front. I regret so much of who I was and what I did during that time. But, cause, if I had been any little bit of a bit more insightful, I would have pressed it, but I left it alone. So what happened, where I kind of put it out of my mind? Um, I didn't like that. He still had your, his picture, pictures of y'all when he visited you on his wall remember how facebook was like a wall at that point and you could go. So I said something to him, maybe like a month later, like you know, if you don't like her so much, like, why do you still have these pictures up? And he's like oh, I'm sorry, babe, I'm sorry, I'll take them down. So I'm not sure if he I don't remember whether he did or not but when things got serious for me was on valentine's day, I went out to chicago where he was living at, and I saw where he was staying, in the basement, his parents and he had all his paintings. So he's a painter.
Speaker 2:he paints these big, giant, life-size like six by nine pictures, and so I saw wait and I'm gonna stop you there too, because, wait, staying in the basement with his parents, that's not what I heard.
Speaker 1:But now I'll tell you the way that I overlooked that was because his dad had cancer and he wanted to be closer to him while he was. You know, his dad is still alive, actually, he still has has cancer. Unfortunately he's not in a great place, but, um, but you know, I kind of saw it as like, okay, you know, you're getting back on your feet because he came from St Louis. I will also say that part of the lie of that time was he was married before and so he was like, you know, I, I, you know, I lost everything and I left because I moved out to where she was and then I had to go back to him, to my mom's, and then my dad was dying. So I, you know, and I just let all of it make sense, even though when I look back, oh, I know what that's like back, oh, I know what that's like on valentine's day, um, I see all his paintings and I notice a painting of you. Now let me say this the painting of you, not the one you saw. This is what you saw was the end after he destroyed it. But what I saw was a pretty painting of you and I recognize it because you had like the short, tapered, no hair, bald style and um, and I could tell your face, you know, like all your features, and it was I could tell your face, you know, like all your features, and it was a really pretty painting, just so you know, cause you never saw it when it was, when it started and it had, and it was big, okay, it was like six feet by nine. It had on your cheek like words and stuff that you had said to him like, um, goodbye for now, and I don't know, just like all these cute little phrases all over the painting of stuff y'all had said to each other on the phone or something. And I was just like is this Lily? Is this the woman in your profile picture from before? And he was like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm just making a painting about like all the things I felt and I'm gonna, I'm gonna destroy it eventually.
Speaker 1:And I was just like but you, when did you have time to paint this? Because it was a big painting and I will say he's a really good painter, he makes really wonderful art and he sells it and he does a good job with it. So I don't, I don't, I can't attest to how fast he can paint stuff, but for how intricate it was. It looked like he'd been working on it ever since y'all damn near met. So I was just like, yeah, I don't feel great about this. And I was just like Hmm, and he was like no, no, it's just, you know, this is just part of my journey as an artist, and blah, blah, blah. So I was like okay, okay, fine, so I kind of let it go.
Speaker 1:And then, like three or four months later, something happened. Oh, he gave me his luggage. Okay, let me not tell too many details. I don't need to tell all of that, let me just think of what the most important stories are, because it just kept coming up. That's what I want you to know.
Speaker 1:Is that this whole thing with you kept coming up in different ways? And I could see that it was still in his mind. You know when somebody is not over something. And so I had that idea like he was working on the painting throughout our engagement and getting married, and after we got married and moved in and I could see him still working on the painting. Now I will say he does do that with all of his painting. He continues to just tinker and tinker and tinker and tinker with them. So it wasn't any different. But it was just like, why?
Speaker 1:So one day I was just like, can we please talk about this, because it's irritating something in my soul that you keep working on this painting of a woman you're saying was not significant, was not good to you, was a terrible person. He actually gave me your Facebook profile and he said go see for yourself then Go look her up. You can see for yourself what a horrible woman she is. So I was like, okay, fine, I will.
Speaker 1:And so I started low-key stalking you and what I found was that you were actually amazing and wonderful and like a really brilliant you know writer and the way you articulate and express yourself and you're going to crack up at this. But when he gave me your profile and told me to look you up, one of the first things I saw was a live you did on Facebook and you had. I remember what you were wearing. You're wearing like a gray sweatshirt and gray sweatpants. You were sitting on the floor and you were talking about how just disillusioned you were with the dating world and like how men are inconsistent. Do you remember this one and how you know?
Speaker 1:Kind of you were talking about how.
Speaker 2:Did I have like a? Was my hair long or was it bald, I don't know.
Speaker 1:but keep going, I don't remember what your hair was, but you were talking about how, like you know, you were just tired of hookup culture and men who were just wanting to hook up and you were like you know, I'm really looking for something deep and I just feel like men are not there. And I remember, like literally Lily, having tears in my eyes Because I was already feeling very trapped. I was already feeling very trauma, bonded, and I remember feeling, oh my God, this is getting me slightly emotional. But I remember feeling like jealous that you got away because I was already in it. I was already like I felt very trapped.
Speaker 1:Also, like I don't remember the exact timeline, but like we got pregnant right away with our daughter and so I and I had two kids from my first marriage and I was like still very vulnerable and recovering from all that, so I couldn't just leave like, oh, I'm unhappy, let me just get out of here.
Speaker 1:Like I had a new baby and I was completely in every way, just reliant on him financially, but like emotionally too, it was really ugly and I think he knew that. So he started using the situation with you because he knew this was the kind of abuser he was. He would use stuff that he knew was a weakness and taught me with it. And so, for example, there was one time he came home and I had on like a long curly purple wig and my Detroit because I'm from Detroit, so like a Detroit Lions hat or whatever, and he came in and he looked at me and he was like you did that on purpose? And I was like what? And he was like you're trying to look like Lily? And I was like I'm not, babe, I swear, I'm not trying to look like Lily.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, how awful.
Speaker 1:Jesus, I don't like when you wear that. I don't want you to wear that wig. I don't want you to try to look like Lily. And I was just like I'm not, I swear. I mean, I was in that place where I was not fighting back in any way. I was like I promise you I'm not. And he was like. You know she wears colorful wigs and and hats and I hate that.
Speaker 1:Look, I points that came to a head in this situation, which is why I reached out to you, is that a year or two into this, he started messing around with other women and I went into investigation mode, right, so I started. I got into his email. This is when it all made sense for me, lily. I got into his emails. I looked through his sent folder for like the last three years prior to that and I saw that he had sent you an email and in the email he said to you stuff that he had been sent sending to all these other women and that he also said to me in the beginning, in particular, this one line I don't know what to make of you.
Speaker 1:And the thing is, is he like, confessed his love for you and how much you meant to him and you never responded and then it made it like it clicked to me, like, oh, that's why he has it out for this woman, that's why he's telling me all these lies and she's such a horrible person, and because he, just his little fragile ego, was hurt, because all the other women that he has tried to love bomb.
Speaker 1:He's been, for the most part, pretty successful, like I don't know how much you remember him, but he's. He's very caring, he can be very charismatic and very like women. I mean, what, what his little curse that he does? It worked on me fully and it didn't work on you and that's and I realized like, oh, that's what it is, that's why he's saying so, after I kind of knew that it released the power for me, that that like kind of who I thought you were had over me because, like I had this idea of who you were and my, my husband, is obsessed with this woman. He's still working on this painting because all over the years we were married he was still tinkering with it and then he started eventually destroying it.
Speaker 1:So it was a pretty picture of you and then it went from like he took out half of the skull and made it a like bloody with the brain showing, and then he started yeah, it's very grotesque very violent, very, very violent, and a lot of his paintings do have some violent imagery, but this was this was the most by far, and it was becoming disturbing because he was still bloodying it Every time he came back to it, every time I would see him down. We got, we got a house and he had his own little basement studio and he was down there bloodying it. And so, when we were getting divorced and separating, I finally reached out to you at that point, and part of the reason why is because I was enduring so much post-separation abuse. Our baby was two or younger, I was chronically underslept and I was in such a bad place emotionally. And I saw that he was selling the painting, the pictures of you as prince, not only the, the original, for a good chunk of change, might I, but also I don't know if he ever sold it, by the way, but um, but also prince and I'm like, and then it was called like emotional vampire. That was the name of the piece and I was like you know what you, son of a bitch, because what I realized, everything that he ever said to me about you was true about him, every single thing.
Speaker 1:But I realized that over the course of our marriage, just being married to someone who is a pathological, you know, I believe um, oh, I'm gonna ignore this call I believe. I believe he has narcissistic personality disorder, but that's very hard to diagnose, so I don't want to throw that around, but I'll just say of five years of being married to him, it's a very strong signs that he does so the kind of damage that he was doing to me was just crazy. But I was like I don't want to let another woman, like if it were me, I wouldn't want somebody to be selling pictures of my face, whether it's pretty or not pretty, like your image and your likeness, and and I was, and at that point I was like I don't care anymore, like I'm done protecting him, I'm done with all of that. And then I started reaching out to us. So you were in.
Speaker 1:So you were like number five or six of women I started reaching out to who he had harmed so maliciously that I and this, even though you didn't know about it, was still I felt like causing harm. And a couple women had then reached out to me. So there was more like from what I understood, I was number eight in this line of women who'd been like oh, wow, okay, see, and this is news.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. There was a whole line okay, keep going.
Speaker 2:You know, I know, because I was just looking at our interaction as far as that, I didn't know that there were like and it was all a very similar story.
Speaker 1:I was just the only one who was, and I say this with all love and kindness to myself, but I'm like, why am I getting emotional? But I was the only one who was. It's okay To fall for it and marry him and have a child by him and so. So, yeah, there was a time where I just and I think I even said that to my message like you know, you, you, you got away. You got away and I'm so happy for you that you did that. You didn't have to endure what I did, and I'm so happy for you that you did that. You didn't have to endure what I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but please give yourself some grace, you know honestly, because it wasn't stupid. You know you started off by saying you were in a vulnerable position and and years ago, you know, just a few years prior, I was married to five years for a whole, to a person who was a whole different person than who he made himself out to be now, and he wasn't physically or emotionally abusive, but he was a liar, he was a manipulator, he lied about money, he lied about I ended up in a very bad position.
Speaker 2:I ended up divorced and bankrupt and humiliated, and so I'm just sharing that to say like I get it and it happens, and that was my prior, so just where we were coming in in our interactions with this person was two very different places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I realized, like you know, when I reach out to you and some of these other women, that it was the same story, and so I was just like, well, I can stop it, I can do something right now and I can expose this, and so that was kind of my self-empowerment moment. So I was like okay. So then I reached out to you and I was just like, look, he's selling these prints. I want you to know. So yeah, I'll let you go from there about like how this hits you.
Speaker 2:And when you saw this message and yeah, yeah, wow, I mean I, I remember I was, it was a Sunday and so I was watching football and, you know, my parents were over. It was a family football day and I just remember opening the message and being like, and then being like, you know, and telling my family right and then being like, okay, but I can't even deal with this right now. You know what? And telling my family right and then being like, okay, but I can't even deal with this right now. You know what I mean? Like this is taking me to a place this was like a long time ago. Um, I can't even. I can't process this right now. Let's continue to do what we were doing, and then I'm gonna sit with this later.
Speaker 2:Um, and so many things stuck out to me about the message, right, and my first thing was my, my guard was immediately up, right, because I'm like okay, I don't know this woman. Why, after all this time? Okay, I don't know this woman. Why, after all this time, is she contacting me? Is there something going on between you? Know, am I being somehow brought into? I didn't know what, right? So I I definitely wanted to pause and just like, consider, do you even want to respond? You know what, right? So I definitely wanted to pause and just like, consider, do you even want to respond? You know what I mean. Like, do you even want? Is there even anything to say or not?
Speaker 2:And it was wild to me, because you know the language that you use in the DM and you were like, well, you dated him, you know, such and such time ago. And in my mind that was not my boyfriend. We did not date. It was like we were both in this group on Facebook. We interacted. I was coming out of a relationship, you know, like a three-year relationship after my divorce, right? So I got divorced and then I was-year relationship after my divorce, right? So I got divorced and then I was in a relationship after that and so we started, you know, communicating in this group. Then we became, you know, friends on Facebook. Then, you know, we started talking. He was like, hey, you know, I'd love to talk on the phone, so we started chatting, but none of it was like a lot, right, it was all very talking phase.
Speaker 2:It sounds like a talking phase, yeah, but talking phase. And then it was like, well, I'd love to come, you know, come see you. And I've never been to Vegas, I think he said and I was like, well, okay, cool, I had a um, it's funny Cause my ex-husband's cousin was actually having like a going away party or something like that, and I was like, oh, it'd be cute, you know, he could be my little date and we'll hang out and and whatever and and that's what it was. But during the trip so I'm just going to give you my from my side of things the story. So he came and like we did fun things. I remember we went on on the link Ferris wheel thing and you know, we hung out and and.
Speaker 2:But there was something he was taking pictures and I remember he was like posting them and like tagging me on Facebook. And that made me uncomfortable because I'm like is that with Lily Shepard, with Lily Shepard, with Lily Shepard, with you know? And I was just like this is kind of. But I stopped, but I was like, and then I tried to make it make sense, right, cause I was like, oh well, he's just, he's happy to be with you, you know, isn't that what we want. You know, most times we get mad because they're not posting us and not saying anything. So, okay, so he's excited and he's sharing, okay, fine, even though I did not like it. But you know I did not like it, but I made it make sense. So you know he stayed, you know he didn't see, stayed at a hotel, um, I stayed with him. We did have sex and that's when my husband was like, oh, you put that thing on him, that's what you get for having sex with this man and you you should have. And it was funny. But I was like, yeah, whatever, like I'm grown and, yes, I had sex with him. I feel bad, you know what I mean, whatever.
Speaker 2:But after that he started really talking about like kid, you know, like a life, um, and that was very off-putting to me because I I was like this is fun and okay, what sex, and yay. But like he immediately went to. You know, he started talking about North Carolina, like moving, because I was expressing that I didn't want to live in Vegas much longer, I was definitely ready to leave, I didn't want to raise my daughter there, all this that and the third, and he just started like talking about things that I thought was just way beyond where we were. You know, I'm like this is actually our first time in each other's presence, like the first time I understand that we have interacted on Facebook and you know, we I seem to understand I liked he was articulate, I liked his ideas about things, I was attracted to that. But I'm like, honestly, I hung out with you for 48 hours Like why are we talking about marriage and babies? So I was put off by that also, right and so the thing was. And then he left and he told me that he was working on a painting of me and again I knew that there was a painting that I at first my first reaction was like this is weird, you know, like.
Speaker 2:And then I was like well, don't be like that. Wow, this man is artistic as well. And he's like so enamored that he's making you. You should feel honored, you should feel great, you should and all this should. But it wasn't what I really felt. I really was like, ooh, okay. So then he sent an email and he sent the emails and he was like man professing his love, like yes, from the mountaintop. And I don't know, you know, like all of this, and I remember thinking at that point and we were talking about maybe him coming to visit again, and when I got the email, I was like no, you know, I was like this is, this is way too much and I need to figure out a way to not. I don't want him to come back, you know. I was like I don't want that. And so I I said, and I alluded to my ex my ex was out the picture, but I felt like I needed a reason like I didn't want to.
Speaker 1:He held on to that of you bringing up his ex, your, your ex. When you ended it with him, like that was you were just the most evil woman in the world for that. Like how could you, y'all have this wonderful weekend together and y'all be so in love, and then you bring up your ex and wanting to go back with him he mean, he was butthurt about that hurt.
Speaker 2:And it was not even true, it was just an excuse to me. That felt more. I felt like I was, I don't know, sparing his feelings, saying that, than just saying I straight up, don't want you to come back, I don't want to move forward. I felt like I had to give a reason, and so that's why I brought up my ex. But honestly, my ex was nowhere in the picture. I just didn't want to move forward with him. But I didn't feel comfortable saying that and I didn't want to hurt his feelings or for him to be hurt about it. But it was just very clear that no, no, no. And and his response he blocked me on everything you know, and I was just like, whoa, that's dramatic, but it confirmed. I was like, hmm, it's probably for the best, you know.
Speaker 2:And that was the end of it and I never thought about this man until I got that you know it was oh, I met this guy.
Speaker 2:We talked, you know, maybe for a month or so. He came to visit you know, and then, and that was it, and then so I get this message, you know, almost 10 years later, you know that he's so and I felt here's what I felt was so um, and maybe this is like idealistic and naive, but I was like, oh my God, there's a person out in the world that like thinks this horribly of me, like I just that didn't feel good, you know, and regardless of it was his own mind and his own things and I never mistreated him. The fact that there was somewhere someone out there harboring these feelings and saying you're an energy vampire and a terrible person, like that kind of made me feel sick, a little bit Like I don't like that. You know, it's like I try in my life to be a positive person and to cultivate really great relationships, and so the idea that someone's out there like actively hating me felt For all those years too, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for all that time felt bad. And then when I saw the, the painting, and I was like and making money, like no, this is, this is wrong, you know. But then it was also like, so what, are you gonna do nothing? Yeah, I want this crazy man knowing shit about me. I don't know if he follows me. And then I started thinking does he follow me? Like, has he been watching my moves all this time, does he?
Speaker 2:I got I felt worried and especially when you relayed you know how he had been to you and how abusive that he was I just was like, well, should I be afraid, you know, with? My next thought was like, yeah, like do I need to be? Because people snap all the time? And if this is something that's still present for him, you know, then what the hell? And then I felt really bad for you, like I felt I felt you were sincere and that's why I responded because, like I said, in the beginning, I wasn't sure like when was I just getting in the mix of something and you know, or whatever? But then I really went back and I read your message several, several times and I was like you know what? Let me just like feel into this for a minute. I really feel like this woman is sincere and I really don't feel like she has any bad intentions for me. So let me go ahead and respond to her message.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that you responded, because I did. I saw that. You saw it. You know you can see the scene and for that 24 hours I was like, oh, maybe I did a wrong thing. But you know, I think also when women are being abused and when you're enduring post-separation abuse, all of that, like I really feel like for the most part, we should have grace for women, cause you're not like I can look back and see I wasn't fully in my right mind in some way. You know the things would men say about women when they're being abused like she's crazy, you know she's, she's lost it and it's like, yeah, in some ways, like you've driven her to that. And so I felt like maybe I did a wrong thing. So I was so thankful that you were able to see like my intentions weren't to harm you at all. You know, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I started looking at your page and like, okay, well, who is this person? And I was like, oh, we actually, like, are aligned in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. So, yeah, I'm so glad that you responded it did, and I also felt like it, like I said, it helps me to feel like I was taking my power back a little bit by, just cause I knew that he would be mad at me and I didn't know what would happen to me as a result of me sharing. So I didn't tell him right away, but eventually I did tell him like yeah, I reached out to Lily and we're friends now, but I waited till after we were divorced. So I didn't tell him and he just was like but just to let you know, I don't think he did stalk you that whole time. He put me on that and I think once he put me on that, it kind of started that triangulation process. He didn't really need to, because he would bring you up occasionally, like I said, and use it to taunt me. So then I could say like, oh yeah, she moved to Austin. You know, like I knew that stuff, which is terrible.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I, I think, I think I'm really well, I'm thankful. So, okay, number one sorry, I just had like four thoughts in my head at one. Number one, I'm really grateful that you validated the journey for me, you know, validated like hey, I hear you and I don't remember. I don't even remember what you said. I wish I could find those messages, but like you were so kind to me in such a dark time, so I just want to thank you for that Cause it was a really dark time. So I'm thankful that you responded with graciousness, not like bitch, get out my get it, get on my DMs and deal with your husband, which I think would have been so hard on me too, like I was just trying to help, you know. So I'm curious, because I never asked you this, or I don't know if we talked about it, but did you ever like give him a cease and desist, or say anything to him about the portraits, or ask him to take him down? Or did you ever do anything?
Speaker 2:no, no I said nothing. I was just like you know what I knew then that this is someone I don't want in my life at all. I know even more now. Whatever little, whatever he's got going on, I don't think is worth me inviting. You know, I had really cultivated a really nice and peaceful life here in Austin and I was like I just don't want any parks. You know, whatever he's doing with that, I didn't know about it before. It wasn't hurting me then as much as I feel like it's um, it's not right, clearly, um, I didn't. That feeling wasn't strong enough for me to like take any action, so I just let it sit where it was Okay.
Speaker 2:But I did write about it. I wrote about it, um, and, and it's interesting, and I didn't, I did. I wrote an article on Medium about it called dodging, dodging bullets or something to that, something to that effect. But and I wanted to include a picture of the painting because, just because it was so weird and violent. But then I was like you you know what, I'm not even giving him any shine off of that like you know why would I?
Speaker 2:that's essentially me promoting his art and I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 1:So you can just envision it, sick men out there will be like, oh, let me get that, let me get a print of that, and yeah, it's disgusting the way that. Yeah, anyway, I, I hear you, um, but yes, I remember that because you sent me the link and I thought you did such a beautiful job with it, so, yeah, so the reason why that I wanted to have you on the podcast is because what I found when he sent me on this witch hunt is really that you're such a beautiful dope person and it's really sad because, like I think of myself that too, like I feel like I'm a beautiful dope person out here in the world trying to do beautiful things and heal women, like we're both very passionate about healing women, healing ourselves and healing women and I feel like he's someone who tends to find a certain type, also also biracial girls. Like almost all of his last five women have all been black or white. What is it about the biracial girls? I don't know, but but what I found in you was just like.
Speaker 1:So I was so inspired, like when I started reading yourself. I think that made it hurt even more, because I'm like tank she's beautiful and, like you know in the beginning, like and so articulate, like about women's issues in particular. And yeah, so I just kind of want to give you a chance to share, like your journey, because I thought it was fascinating, like I saw that you know you used to do. Oh, by the way, actually I'll let you share because I don't know if I don't know, if I, if I, you know, you'll bring that up, but he, he, used something in your past against you. Um, no, say it. What I don't want to forget she was just a stripper, don't worry about her, she was just oh, oh, okay, yeah, sure, sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I was a stripper, um, absolutely, and um, so, yeah, we can start the story there um, I could say right away, by the way, that I was like this is not her life at all. Like she's a dancer, she's a gifted like I could tell, like you're a gifted, accredited, trained, you know, like I could see all that. So I'm like, whatever I knew back then and I was, I've never been a, I've never been a stripper, hater, shamer or a slut shamer, hater. Like I've always been very woman positive, body positive, sex positive. That he kept using that like that was something against you and I'm like no, bro, you can look at her stuff and see like she's an accomplished dancer, like she's out here dancing with Beyonce and shit, like come on. But yeah, so I would love to you, yeah, you could just share your journey of like how you moved from like all of the like really cool shit you did to being like a coach and how you empower women now. So, yeah, I'd love for you to share.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that's interesting. That's a thing that I had to come to terms with, will always be. You know, the justice stripper. You know, even it's interesting, right, because even like you look at women, like in music, ok, like a Cardi B or Eve or something, even in their headlines, right, even in their headlines, right, for as much success that they got, people will still find a way to put former stripper in the headline about them or in something about them. Or, you know, I used to think, if something ever happened to me remember there was a thing or like around the 2020 time, if the police shot me, you know what, what picture, what video would they use? And it would definitely be like, oh, former stripper, nothing else I ever did in life mattered, right. So I think you know my ex-husband, who was, you know, met me when I was a stripper. We were married, I was still a stripper. You know it was very much almost encouraging of of that um, profession. When things went bad, it was like, oh, you're just a stripper, I hope our daughter never turns out like you and all kinds of nasty things that he would say. So I said all that to say that's some bullshit, but men will definitely use that and I know now that even probably 20 years from now, if someone ever takes issue with anything I've said or done, it'll be like oh, that former stripper, however. So I started. You know, like you said, I'm a trained dancer.
Speaker 2:I started dancing four years old, went to dance studio, went to high school for performing arts, was a dance major in college, have a degree in dance, moved to las vegas, um, where I started dancing. Like the beyonce gig was one of my first, like you know, gigs in vegas. It was awesome. I was performing in the casinos, doing like um, just shows. You know, I was just gigging all over time, go-go dancing. I was doing this and doing that. And I started working in the strip club like alongside that. Like that's a whole other story.
Speaker 2:But I had an experience where I was in Vegas by myself and I met this couple and you know they were like what do you do? And I was like I'm a dancer. And they were like, oh, of course you are, girl, you got a hot body, you look good. And I was like no, no, no, I am a dancer, like I am a real dancer. And it was so funny, you know. And they were like well, have you ever thought about? Because, like you could make so much money and you know, I had watched shows about Vegas, topless dancers and things and I grew up very sex positive, like it was never an issue for me, but I just didn't think of myself like that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we're drinking, drinking, drinking. They're like well, it's tonight's amateur night across the street at Club Paradise. If you go, girl, we're going to yell for you, you're going to win it's a thousand dollar prize. I was like, let's go, let's go. So we went across the street and I entered this contest and the house mom there said there's usually oh, it was during the week maybe four or five girls. Well, this night there was like 12 girls in it and I was like OK, of course I picked the night where all of these girls are there. This one girl's her bachelorette party, so all her friends were out there. Long story short, I went up there and I took my top off and I danced around and it was a lot of fun and I didn't win first that the bachelorette won first, but my new friends were cheering for me. I won second place. I won $500. And I was like no-transcript, like you know what I do. I do want to work here, you know, and then that was the beginning of that journey. So I was doing, it was just like I don't know, I thought nothing of it. It was fun, you know, until it wasn't, but you know, it was fun for for quite a few years. So, anyhow, I did that.
Speaker 2:Um, I was in Vegas and and we I mentioned my ex-husband a bit we had a rough, you know, we had a rough divorce. Um, he was like he had a whole another girlfriend and I was the last person to find out he had been lying about a bunch of things in our relationship for some time and I ignored a lot of red flags along the way. Plenty, there were a lot of little lies that he told from the very beginning that I kind of just swept under the rug. There were a lot of occurrences that never made sense, that never had resolution, but that I couldn't prove anything. And it all seems so great. Right, fresh out of college, moved to Vegas, start your dancing career, meet this handsome man. He's got a great career, he's making money, you're making money and and wow, you know, this is a fairytale.
Speaker 1:Um, but during that process of oh, I was going to ask you a question when did you have your daughter Like real?
Speaker 2:when you were in Vegas tripping, like, were you already a mom at that point or were you not had her yet? Oh, he cheated before I even got married too, and I still married his ass. Can you believe? I was engaged. It was a whole public thing. I saw the girl. She pulled up receipts on her phone. She had her best friend, like all of this happened and he was so remorseful.
Speaker 2:This and that a lot of things were happening in my life at the time. My mom was in a very bad car accident. She was in a coma for some time. Like, like I was, I was mentally not in a very good place. I decided to still move forward with marrying him. Oh, he made a mistake. He's not who he is. Whatever, we got married. I was 25 when we got married. Yeah, we dated for a year and a half. We were engaged for a year and a half and then we got married and then, uh, my daughter was born in 07. So we got married in 06 and she, we had her in 07. So it was all very quick and I was still. I took that clearly being pregnant, and then the you know, maybe like the first year off, but then I definitely went back to dancing as his wife and a mom and he was definitely okay with that.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then just yeah. Yeah, at once celebrated. It's sad.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, right, Um. So during that that, that whole divorce process, I, that whole divorce process, I was going through it and I kind of had this moment in my room. Just I didn't know what to do because I was trying all these things and nothing was making me feel better. I was going to support groups, I was doing affirmations. I had just started my own spiritual journey a few years prior. I was just in this thing of like searching like nothing was was helping. I started going doing yoga and then I was in my room and it was. I just got this download and it was like just move. And I started moving. But it was so different I mean one because it didn't say just dance, right, it said just move.
Speaker 2:And for me that felt like a different directive because I had been dancing. You know, I had been dancing as performance. You know, for other people I really didn't have my own movement practice for myself and my well-being. So I had this like experience where I just put on something on shuffle on my playlist and I just was like a mad woman.
Speaker 2:You know, I was like doing all these if I was rolling on the floor, I was like it's funny, because now I guess people like charge big money to do these like all this, you know big like new age movement stuff. But I was doing that and then I was twerking and like I was going through every emotion that I had, like I was thinking about my life like fuck that shit, I'm gonna have a good ass life. And I was twerking and then I would like roll and crawl and I was like but I was so hurt and I was crying and I was like then I was doing all this big dramatic stuff like I'm a star, no one can stop me. I mean, like I went through recording. It took all my energy okay yeah, it just completely cut out.
Speaker 1:But I know what you were saying.
Speaker 2:You were just saying okay you started twerking, oh okay yes, yes, and then and I and then I was like get into a ball and cry because I was in despair and then I would do like big leaps and because I was like I'm a star and I can. Nothing can stop me. This is going to be great, like I feel. Like I went through so many different emotions and I was looking weird and I was like making you know, know, I was just. It was something so different for me because I was trained everything you know was from a performance standpoint and my training and so this was felt so weird to me to move in this way. But I felt like things got dislodged and I was able to like I found what I was looking for in doing all of the yoga and saying my affirmations and going to these groups and stuff. Like after I did that, I was like okay, I just I felt at peace and I was like, okay, now I can go about planning my life and how we're going to move forward. I can, cause I couldn't. I had so much emotional stuff going on that I couldn't and I couldn't see the steps ahead of me. You know, I couldn't. And once I got that out of my body and my body was like, ok, we're ready, what do we need to do? We need to follow this, we need to do this, we need to look into this and to do with dance training. Right, this was just a woman going through some shit and got this directive to move. How can I use the training that I do have and how can I support women in this? Because I can't be the only person that's experienced this, and this was so helpful to me to, because I knew what I should be doing, but my body just wouldn't let me move forward with it. It had to be processed, released, um, and so, yeah, I moved to. I started teaching a class called twerk and burn right, because the twerking part was was the most fun part of that experience.
Speaker 2:Right when I was just like, and so I started teaching a class in Las Vegas. Then I moved to Austin. I was very excited my husband moved first, and my ex-husband, and because he moved out of state, then I was like, okay, I'm free to go. And so I moved to Austin and I started teaching those classes. But from there I wanted to get even deeper.
Speaker 2:Like, because women were connecting to each other.
Speaker 2:We were sharing stories after just like kind of as I did in my room, like I could think clearly and I had things were coming up to the surface after the movement, and so we started adding on, like our after class for wine and connection so women could talk and share their stories, and so it just kept growing and then I thought, okay, this is something like this is this? This is my purpose, this is this is what I'm here to do. I'm here to, like, use all of this background about, and knowledge about, the body and how it works and make it accessible for women who don't have that training but know that there is power in movement and power in the body. And so I did, um, I got my yoga teacher training like $200 trauma-informed training to be able to support that. I started studying breath work, holotropic breath work and I just started kind of adding tools and studying onto what I already knew to be able to, like offer this to women out in the world. And yeah, that that was a long story, but that's how it started.
Speaker 1:No, I want to. I wanted to hear that of how you did that, because I think what I noticed, like just kind of over the last few years because when we connected, let me just also state that that was 2020, I think right, or or 2021. I think it was 2019.
Speaker 2:I think it was like the end, the end of 2019.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, so when we connected, you know. So since then we've kind of been, you know, we've been Facebook friends and Instagram follower buddies or whatever you want to call it. So I've seen some of your stuff and I think what really has stood out to me is the way and also let me just give you your flowers Like you're such a beautiful writer. I really love how you write. I'm someone who used to write and like has kind of got lost in all the trauma and I haven't really written a lot lately. I almost feel like I got to relearn.
Speaker 1:But I noticed, just from writer to writer, like when I, as soon as I started reading your stuff, like you're just I love how you I don't even really know how to say I just love how you speak so directly to the real issue and I really love how everything you write. It really feels like a love letter. Um, it really feels so kind I don't know how to explain like it feels like you're just like oozing empathy and so like I noticed, like just following your platform, like what you write and how you're trying to teach women it's not just about dance, it's really clear. It's not just about dance, but it's like movement is such a big part of it, and and so, yeah, I was just kind of wondering, like, how did you get to the point of like where you're at now, because you're running a full fledged business right Like it's? Yeah, this is it?
Speaker 1:Yeah and so. So for any of my listeners like what are you offering and who are the kind of women who you're wanting to kind of be a part of what you're offering?
Speaker 2:Well, first, thank you for saying that. I mean I really like that. I let that land and sit with that. It's something that I really appreciate, you know, because it's funny.
Speaker 2:As much as I love dance and movement, you know writing there's such a special place for the written word in my heart and I I was away from it for a very long time and so to kind of like return and get that feedback is really special. You know, now I have so I'm focused on building community right. I, you know I go and facilitate things at summits and retreats and have done some corporate work where just body intelligence right, like, like, how can the person that is working at their corporate job teams, how can we use this to be more cohesive and to be more productive? But my real heart is in the body intelligence collective, which is for professional women that want a space to explore a connection with their body right, but also kind of get out of performance mode. And I talk about that a lot because a lot of us don't tend to the woman underneath the roles we're showing up as all of these different things. You know we're whatever it is that we are in our job and whoever it is that we are to our partner, whoever it is that we are to our parents and whoever it is that we are to our children. In the community, you know, there's so many things and we give so much into those pieces of us that sometimes are very easy to get lost. Well, who really am I underneath all of that? When you take all of that away, who am I? What do I want? What makes me happy, what makes me feel good? And I think when we connect to that, it's like a ripple effect. It touches our children, it touches the people that we come in contact with, because joy is, I mean, like it's hard to find. You know what I mean? It's hard to find, and if you're not cultivating it and if you're not, you don't have a connection to your body. Um, it's hard out here. You know it's hard out here.
Speaker 2:And so the collective is a space. Yeah, the collective is a space where, just for women to come, we do a body church once a month, so we move, uh, virtually, we have members in different parts of the world, we get together, we, we celebrate and we have reverence for our bodies. Um, we, we have a podcast in there that's only available to members of the collective where it's just wisdom. It's just. I'm just speaking on on topics. I'm I'm educating about the body's role and how we change behavior right and how we can actually make shifts in our lives. Yeah, and we have a group chat that is popping and we just chat about things and I really want to build a world in which women are not sacrificing connection with their bodies in the service to being successful and to having a man and to you know, all of these things that we often do. So that that's kind of where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1:I love it and I want to ask you about something that I saw on your socials that I also was like see, this is why I love her. You said something about firing a marketing person because they put a picture of you and your husband on your website and tell me if I'm getting the story wrong and you were like why are you doing this, like I'm for women, and the marketing assistant I think was a man was just like oh, I want to show women what's possible. And you're like no, because this is not the only thing that's possible for you as a woman.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, tell me about that story, cause I just I respect it so much. I thought it was so cool, yeah, and that hurt my feelings, honestly, when this person that I I'm paying money to to like present my offering to the world in the best possible light and they came up with a. It's a beautiful picture of me and my husband, and my husband is incredible and a major part of my life, right, so I just I was so shocked to see it in that capacity, because that's what he said to me, like basically the reason you need people to buy in and women are not going to buy into this work unless you know you tie it to happily ever after and having a partner, you know they're not just going to want to do this work for themselves.
Speaker 2:And I just thought that was such bullshit, like completely you know, like it pissed me off so bad and I was hurt by it because I felt like it was really reductive and I was like, of all of the things that I put out in this world, of all of the training, of all of the hours and hours of training, of having a degree of dancing with Beyonce, of being a yoga teacher, of going to all of these places, the most important thing that you want to push forward is my husband, is the fact that I'm married, Like come on terrible.
Speaker 1:It's so reductive and it honestly kind of all ties together. Like I think men are in this collective place where their minds are blown. They can't understand a world which so many women are not living in, where they are not the center, they're not the direct center, and also we're adamant that we don't want to be defined and legitimized by our proximity to them, whether you're in the position you're in where you're happily completely married in a wonderful marriage, or I'm single, and I still don't want to center men right now. I don't want to center them and I don't want my life to be legitimized by whether or not I was married or not or divorced or not. You know, and I think men are just like, because, like I have I don't know if you got this back when you were single, but I have quite a few men who will say something to me like well, if you do this differently online, I'm sure you would get a man. Or if you, if you didn't say stuff like this, you'd probably get a man, and it's always men, you know, saying that and I'm just like y'all really can't understand this.
Speaker 1:I really feel like I don't know if you see this, especially with, like, how you're coaching and leading this, this collective, like I feel like women are just moving in this beautiful place towards loving ourselves and prioritizing ourselves and really truly centering ourselves. And like it's not the. It's not the. You know, it's not the times that our moms had I think my mom is probably a lot older than your mom, but like it wasn't. It's not the 70s, it's not the times that our moms had I think my mom is probably a lot older than your mom, but like it wasn't. It's not the 70s, you know like where women were just like we got to get married, we got to have babies, you know, and now it just feels like so empowering. I love, I love the women right now me too.
Speaker 2:I had a great moment and my mom you know it's like my mom is 78, but she was a very strong role model with that. You know, without me knowing, because she, you know her, my dad they got married when I was seven years old and she tells me to this day had you not pressed this? Because I pressed it right, I was a little kid, I didn't understand why are y'all not married?
Speaker 1:I don't get it we're, we're a family.
Speaker 2:You know, I want you to get married. So bad. And they got married when I was seven and I was in the wedding. It was beautiful. But she tells me they go there like, yeah, we probably wouldn't have, we probably would have been just fine, like we didn't need to, like get married. She had been married before. Um, you know, she got married at 18. Um, yeah, yeah, and so I had a good role model for that, I guess, and it's funny because I never would have thought about it in those terms. But now that I'm older she and she did this.
Speaker 2:I found an old letter that my mom wrote to me in college, something about because I had a boyfriend. Before I even got to college, I had a boyfriend. I've been in long-term relationships, right. I've never. That's why it was crazy.
Speaker 2:When I got to Austin, it was like my first time being single, single I don't know Since, like high school, right, okay, for any extended period of time, right, because even in the time that I met your ex-husband, I have just come out of a three year relationship that started kind of right after I got divorced.
Speaker 2:So she wrote this letter and it was so beautiful and it was saying something about like him being the icing on the cake or something, and my life is the cake or I don't know, but she said it really eloquently and I didn't even realize at the time, you know. But when I read it back I'm like yeah, mom, like yeah, and that's how I feel now. It's like my relationship is sacred and I don't post a lot about it or, you know, I don't. I'd like to keep it close to me because I don't want to be defined by that at all and I think, like you were saying, it's very possible, regardless of your marital status and how much you love your partner or you being single, you know to not be always centering the centering men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so much more to us and I feel like, honestly, this journey for me, honestly, has started. So much of this journey started while I was married to him because he, because he, was such a misogynist and actually forced me. His misogyny was so overt and and extremely violent. It actually forced me into figuring out, like I have to figure out who I am, I have to figure out what I believe, I have to figure out who I am outside of this, because I knew I couldn't stay. So this journey, all that to say, feels still relatively new for me in some ways, because I grew up like in in really strong evangelical Christian. My whole point was to get married and have babies, kind of thing. So I had to really really deprogram myself. So, yeah, your work has.
Speaker 1:I've I've taken a lot of things you've said and written here and there and just tried to figure it out for myself, and I've definitely moved more as a result, too.
Speaker 1:I want to tell you that, too, like I have thought about and try to dance more also and I can't very good dancer at all. I want to be, though I actually want to take dance lessons at some point, but yeah, it's impacted me and really, really being like, how can I embody this more? Because one thing I will say about you and for everybody listening like Lily, what you, what you do, you truly embody, like I'm one of those people that believe energy doesn't lie and I just feel like your energy gives off, like you mean what you say, you're doing what you say, you know everything, you're teaching, you're doing it. I really feel that, like I can feel it it's emanating off of your work. So I just want to kind of encourage everyone, like please go check her out, which I would love for you to share, like where they can find you if they're interested in working, because do you do one on one coaching?
Speaker 2:Do you do one-on-one coaching? I do so. There's a inside of the collective. There are different tiers, right? So there's one tier. That is just everything that I kind of spoke about earlier. There's another tier that has access to a vault of movement videos. So, like some challenges, some like guided movement, we have movement for grief, movement for rage, movement to build capacity.
Speaker 1:Just short videos that you can do at home on your own time and then, at the highest tier, is one to one work. Oh nice, okay, okay. Well, y'all go check her out, because Lily is that deal and honestly, I know it just sounds like I'm guessing. I'm really not, like I really really respect your stuff, like it just so happens that we met in this weird way, but like if I just found you outside of that whole thing, I would still be feeling the same way, like I really respect what you write, what you teach, how you do it, your whole platform. Yeah, I just love it, so, yeah. So where can we find you on the socials? Are you on TikTok or are you just Instagramming.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not on TikTok, um, I'm just on. I'm. Yeah, I have an account, but I don't I don't know do anything over there. Um, so, on Instagram, I'm um. At body intelligence underscore Academy uh, at bodies, body intelligence academycom slash collective is where you can find all the info about the collective. Um, I'm on LinkedIn for my LinkedIn people, I really. Yeah, so my book you can actually go to um body intelligence academycom slash book and download the audio book for free. Yeah, I recorded it as an audio book. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. A lot of people asked for that and was like, I would love to like listen to this while I'm going for a walk or doing this or that. So, yeah, you can go um, the link is on my Instagram as well. You can just go ahead and download it for free and take a listen.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, I definitely will. I had. When you first told me you were writing a book, I was like, oh my God, because I knew it was going to be good. And so I feel so bad that I'm talking about how good a writer you are and I haven't got it. But I'm going to get it because I know. I actually went on your Instagram today just so I could, like you know, look at background stuff and I saw like, see, I got to get this, so I'm going to get it. So it's not available on Amazon, it's just on your website.
Speaker 2:It is. You can get it on Amazon also. But Amazon, you know, it's like I don't know. Some people like to hold a physical book. So, yes, you can get it on Amazon. Or, if you want to listen, you can definitely download it also.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay. So to end here, let me ask you one final question. What would you say to someone who's watching this right now, who is kind of struggling to find themselves and, um, or maybe just feels a little stuck in life, Like how could they practically apply some of the things that you teach about movement and just to kind of push their life forward? You know a little bit.
Speaker 2:Mm, I would say create a space, a quiet space where you can hear yourself. That's step number one. I think we're so overloaded with information and inspiration and even though inspiration is great, right, it can tell us, kind of lead us, to where we want to go there's so many layers on top of our true heart's desire that it gets hard to cut through that noise. So I think, taking a time period, that's right for you, right, not everybody can just drop out of things you know for an extended time.
Speaker 2:But just get in nature, get quiet If you can like, cut off of social media, media in general, right, and just be able to hear yourself, right, and move a little bit. It doesn't have to be a huge movement practice, right, sometimes just taking a mat or something out somewhere in nature and just sitting and just swaying and just rocking, you know, and just the smallest thing. It never needs to be a big grand gesture, but just be able to hear yourself. That's before anything, because we don't realize sometimes how many messages are coming through that aren't really originating with us, that are just coming through us and that we kind of take on as, oh I should do this or I should want this, or maybe I want to do this, but get still, get quiet, get in nature and move.
Speaker 1:I love that, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here and thanks for, you know, digging up the past with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really glad that we met, you know, I'm really glad you know. Digging up the past with me, yeah, I'm really glad that we met, you know, I'm really glad you know, isn't it? Isn't it? God works in mysterious ways, right, and the things that happen, and you know who would have thought? Who would have thought, I know?
Speaker 1:right? Yeah, it's. It's always a reminder to me that the most beautiful things like even, you know, my beautiful, wonderful, amazing daughter came from something that was like one of the most painful things I've ever went through in my life. But there's always beauty in the ashes, so this is just another example of that. So I'm grateful for you and thank you for being here, and I hope that any of my listeners will resonate, will find you. I hope so. You are worth following. You're a leader worth following for sure, so so yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
