Ep 48: Five Survival Mode Lies And The Journaling Practice That Breaks Them

Survival mode is sneaky because it can feel like “I’m just handling life” right up until you pause and realize you’ve been white knuckling everything for years. I’m Grace Sandra, and I’m talking about the way trauma, chronic stress, and a cruel culture can plant beliefs in us that sound true but quietly wreck our self-worth, our relationships, and our health.

I share a personal story from the years after leaving a severely abusive marriage, when CPTSD, grief, postpartum fallout, financial pressure, and perimenopause collided and I truly believed I wouldn’t survive. From that place, the mind starts looping on lies: I have to do everything alone, rest is laziness, my worth is what I produce, being needed means being loved, and if I stop everything will fall apart. We slow each one down and tell the truth about what it costs, especially for Black women who are constantly expected to be strong, silent, and self-sacrificing.

Then we get practical. I explain why journaling and expressive writing are such powerful tools for nervous system regulation, reducing rumination, and challenging the “something is wrong with me” storyline that can come with complex PTSD. I talk guided prompts, simple daily habits like gratitude and affirmations, and how writing helps you name the lie and replace it with something real. If you’re trying to get out of survival mode, this is a gentle place to start.

If this resonates, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s carrying too much, and leave a five-star review so more people can find Out Here Trying To Survive. What’s one survival mode lie you’re ready to stop believing?

Transcript

Survival Mode And Hidden Beliefs

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Is this true? This cannot be true. What the f do you mean I'm not worthy? Anyone else not realize when you're in survival mode? I just think a lot of us don't even know we're in it because we're just going, going, going, going, going. And then we like try to slow down and then we do slow down, and then we realize when we slow down, like shit is in fact fucked up. And what I've been realizing lately, y'all, is that survival mode really teaches you things and it solidifies beliefs in you, but those beliefs don't be true though. That's what makes it so insidious. What a lot of people like you and I who maybe struggle with PMDD or complex PTSD or ongoing depression, anxiety, bipolar, something, whatever it is, autism, you know, different kinds of neurodivergencies that create beliefs in us that really aren't true. I want to talk about that today, not so much that the mental health and mental illnesses that some of us are faced with, but more of just the idea of like how do you get out of survival mode and what's one way that has really worked for me. So I saw something the other day, it was like a um, you know, those little Instagram carousels that are informational and it was about CPTSD. So I was diagnosed with CPTSD in 2018 and I was in the middle of an abusive marriage. It was not a shock. I really think I've had it for most of my life because I had tons of childhood trauma. But anyway, child, so what it said was that it was like less common things that people don't tend to know or focus on about complex PTSD. So I'm like, okay, I know I know a pretty good amount. I've studied it, I've looked into it, all of that. But one of the things that it said to me that just stuck out in a new way was basically it said, when you suffer through CPTSD, you carry an underlying belief that something is wrong with you. And I was like, damn, damn, yes. That is so, so true. I think, especially since I was in an abusive marriage, you know, obviously when someone's treating you horribly in a way that dehumanizes you, you're gonna start to believe that something is wrong with you. But don't y'all just see how that could be true for so many people because the world is so cruel to people. It's so cruel. Y'all, why is it so cruel? Like people are just awful. I saw a post the other day on Threads and it was on trans, the trans day of visibility. And it was a trans woman who was just like, hey, I felt cute. I'm happy to celebrate myself on trans visibility day, and not even a couple, hundreds of comments that were just so abusive and awful really disgusted me. Just hate for no reason, and the way that you know black women are hated, just ugh, yeah, it's too much. I can just see with like the level of cruelty in the world why so many of us walk through the world with this fundamental belief that something is wrong with us, and how that can put you in a perpetual, consistent state of survival mode. But anyway, I just want to talk about the lies that we learn and allow ourselves to internalize in survival mode, and how that can just quietly ruin your whole entire life. But before we do all that, let me introduce myself. My name is Grace Sandra. I'm a writer, author, activist, speaker, mom, and a podcaster. The Out Here Trying to Survive podcast is a safe storytelling space, a warm hug of solidarity from me to you as we reimagine a life where black women aren't just surviving but thriving. Welcome to episode 48. But first, let me tell y'all the story. I had left my full-time job because I was kind of having a little bit of a mental breakdown about a year and a half out from leaving a very severely abusive marriage. And I was doing a lot better, y'all. I I've told some of this story before, but I was doing EMDR. I was feeling better. But what I didn't know was that it was coalescing with perimenopause in a way that was really affecting me hugely. I just knew that I like couldn't handle my life anymore, couldn't white knuckle it. So that fall, it had been almost a year since I left my job. And without a full-time job, I was clearly struggling financially. And when my mom started getting sick and I knew she was going pretty soon, I was at the point, I think I might have been like$35, almost$4,000,$3,500, almost$4,000 behind a rent. One day I was breaking down about it and I made some TikToks. This is crazy because I'm getting emotional. Let me say though. I think I'm about to start my period, and y'all know I've told y'all before I have PMDD bed. So I'm one of those people that gets like super heightened emotions when I'm about to start my period, and I know it's coming because I could feel the cramps earlier this morning. But anyway, so I'm I'm getting emotional, but like just no, that's what's going on. But anyway, y'all, so I read I made this like four-part TikTok series. They're not still there, by the way. I did private them because I was really having an emotional breakdown. But I was, I'm gonna try to get through this without crying, but I was apologizing to my mom because ooh, child, I'm about to cry. Because I wanted her to know that I was so sorry that I was such a loser and that I wasn't making it. I think each TikTok was maybe two or three minutes, and it was like four of them, so it was pretty involved. I was crying and losing it the whole time. Talking to my mom as if she were still alive. I think it might have been like a week or two after, and I just kept apologizing to her. I just kept apologizing over and over and over again that I was in that position because I felt like I don't know what could get me out of this. I don't know how I will survive this. I didn't have any hope that I would survive it. I can look back with hindsight now and understand I was very deeply in paramenopause. I mean, I'm still in it, but it wasn't treated. And not only that, I didn't know that that's what was happening to me, I can look back on that time and see I was still very deeply wounded from having been severely abused, and I was trying to recover from that while still having a very young child and still honestly still experiencing the effects of postpartum depression. And might I add, being chronically underslept, I was still experiencing the ramifications of being a single mom of three and just being overwhelmed in general. I can look back and see, like, oh, I can see why I was really spiraling out, and then losing my mom and all of that. It was just not a good combination at all. There's nothing in me that told me at that time, you can push through this, things will get better. You know, if you stay strong, you'll be okay. It was more like, nope, you're gonna die. This is terrible. Nothing, you'll never make anything of yourself, you'll never survive this. Just you're a loser, you're terrible over and over and over again. And what I realized from looking back on that time is that the beliefs that we tell ourselves during that time when when things are so, so hard, really rewire what we believe is true. And I think that for a time I did really believe I am fully incapable of these things, but y'all looking back, I think that was just the complex PTSD talking. I really do. I really, really fully believe that. Because the truth is I'm capable of so much, you know. Now that was 2022, 2023-ish, when I was when it was really at the height of just spiraling out of control. So a lot has happened since then, y'all. I mean it's 2026. But I want y'all to think about the hardest times of your life in the past and whether you're in it now, and what are some of the lies that you can identify that were told to you that you might actually still be hanging on to just because they're familiar, not even because they're true. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes, you know, our brain tells us these things just to protect us, and because honestly, it seems kind of logical, but long term they definitely keep us stuck. I want to talk about five lies that you might be believing in survival mode and what you can do to get out of it. Lie number one, I have to do everything alone. I gotta do all this by myself. This usually comes from just being constantly let down, from not having consistent support and realizing that if it didn't, if it didn't come down to you doing it wouldn't happen. And then, you know, we adapt, we become hyper dependent and realize that we can't depend on anyone else, and so you just stop asking for help. And yeah, that works for a time. I do think there is some benefit in just being like, let me just pull up my big girl panties and I'm going to take over the world. But over time, it just leads to isolation. And I'm here to tell you, don't do that, y'all. I know a couple different women, actually, two different women who I'm not friends with anymore. This is not the reason why. But they had that mentality that you're really not supposed to ask for help, especially publicly. And they had been taught by their mothers that they were, in essence, kind of wrong for asking for help, but to their detriment, to their detriment. And I see a lot of people have a lot of pride around asking for help that I don't have. I sometimes I feel like I am real comfortable asking for help. Sometimes it's hard, but for the most part, I don't know if it's because I'm a last born or because I was raised differently, you know, as a a woman. I mean, obviously I identify as black, but I'm biracial. Some of my friends who aren't biracial, especially like some black women in my life who aren't biracial, who've been raised by black mothers, whereas I was raised by a white mother, it's more poignant for them, like almost like this, like it's a cardinal sin to ask for help, to be a black woman, ask for help. And I just haven't felt that way. So sometimes I don't know if it's just personality or it really is the difference between being raised by a black mother and a white mother. But I have realized that if I if I'm not in a partnership with people in my life, like on a friend level or on a romantic level or any level where I feel like I can't ask them for help when I need it, and vice versa. I've I open other people asking me for help too, then it doesn't feel safe to me. Because the truth is that staying independent all the time is yes, what kept you safe at some point in your life when you were in survival mode, but it but connection is what helps you heal. Like being actually connected with someone in a way that where you're sacrificing and they're sacrificing, that's what helps you heal. And that healing is really necessary so that you don't feel like you have to earn someone's support by suffering first, or that someone has to suffer to be close to you. You know what I'm saying? Like you you really do have to embody like how can we be mutually dependent on one another. And I'm not just talking about romantically, I'm talking about all the relationships in your life: friend, sister, brother, mother, cousin, baby daddy, sneaky link. Well, maybe not the sneaky link, but y'all know what I'm saying. If you feel like everything is always on your shoulders, it's going to isolate you from the real meaningful connections that matter towards you being a whole, healthy, happy human. Lie number two, rest is laziness and baby. This one is so hard for so many of us. I posted this TikTok the other day. I'll post it here, and it was basically like me deciding I'm going to take a, you know, take a nap, and then you know, the nervous system is going absolutely nuts because we live in such a you only have a UMO show productive society, and so we have been always thinking, always going, always planning, always plotting, and slowing down does not feel safe at all. But y'all, we are getting old, okay? We up here, I'm about to be 50 this year. We 50, we 40. I know my audience is like 35, 38, 42, 48, 50, 52. Y'all, we owe we got to rest, and we should not feel guilty about it. We are literally a human being, and human beings' bodies are designed to rest. It really is that simple. Our nervous system has been in overdrive, and that kind of chronic stress leads our nervous system to be in flight or fight or fawn or other reactions that are not good for us. And those things make you sick, by the way. And not just like a little common cold, like chronic exhaustion can lead to adrenal failure, and adrenal failure can lead to breast cancer. It's serious. I actually have one of my good, good friends who was told that just recently, she just was recently diagnosed with breast cancer, and part of the reason why she was susceptible to it is because she was in adrenal failure a few years ago. I don't want to share all her business, but she was in an extreme situation. Her body could not rest, and she was in chronic stress for years, and now here she is. It's serious. So if you feel like you can't think straight, which is in part a function of perimenopause and the brain fog we experience, but you know, just a friendly reminder, that's not a character flaw. It's it's your biology, and and rest shouldn't be a reward. Rest rest is it's a requirement. Lie number three: my worth is in what I produce. A lie that keeps going and will not give up is that if you're not producing, you're not worthy of anything, you're not valuable. And who is a woman who's not being helpful or productive or impressive or have an identity to boast about, especially an IG worthy one. This is something that really hit home for me when I wasn't working a full-time job and was struggling financially, and I just constantly felt like I am a worthless piece of shit, and it was completely and fully connected to lack of having a career. And if I had a thriving career right now, it would not make me worth any more. But that was the lie that I was choosing to believe that I just wasn't enough. And as someone who's not working full-time right now, although I am applying and I just got my master's degree and I'm out here applying and trying to get the job that is a reflection of my education and the salary that is a reflection of what I'm worth. It definitely does still make me feel like, oh wow, if I had a big fancy job, then all of a sudden people will be looking at me a certain way, like, okay, you're worth more. And it's just not true. We literally deserve to be valued even when we're not impressive, and that's a hard one. And if you're in an impressive place in life right now, then you're probably not feeling this. You probably don't even need this episode. But because you've got it all unlocked, and maybe some of those beliefs are too set in and nothing is there to humble you or teach you. But for the rest of us who don't have like this outward success to say, look at me, I'm so worthy, just know you still are worthy, even without outward success. Number four, being needed is the same as being loved. I think this one really runs deep for some of the firstborns. I'm not plagued with this as much, but still a little bit as a mom. But basically, the idea that love and responsibility is confusing because the way you were raised, you may felt like the more responsible you were, the more loved you were. And if people depended on you, then you were loved because you were needed. And so as a result, you just hold everything together. I actually have a best friend who told me that she was really honest with me that she felt like when I stopped needing her as much, she stopped feeling as loved by me. And I'm like, girl, what? Like, no, I love you just as much, whether I need you or not. What are you talking about? I had never understood that dynamic quite as much. But now that as a mom, I do get it that being needed feels like connection, but it also feels like exhaustion and it also keeps you busy and not necessarily loved, which is different. Number five, if I stop, everything will fall apart. And I get that right now, y'all. I feel this like very acutely in my own life because a lot of times, as still a paramenopausal woman, I'm tired, y'all. I'm really tired. I just can't, I honestly can't believe how tired I am, how often it actually is kind of shocking to me to feel like wow, I really felt very different in my 20s. I was working full time, I had just one kid in my 20s, but I just had endless energy. I I literally look back and I'm like, I have maybe a third of the energy I had in my 20s. And then in my 30s, I was working full-time and my I had a big giant job at that time where I was handling multiple things, and I had two kids, and I didn't have a very easy marriage at all, and I was working constant overtime, and I was able to do a little less than when I was in my 20s, but I still don't remember feeling any energy issues. I still was pretty good on just I can do you know, I struggle with motivation, but I just was able to do quite a lot. I was juggling a lot, and it was like that for most of my 30s, and honestly, the first the first part of my 40s too. But it was just in these like last five years from going from 45 to 50, which I'm not 50 yet, but these last five years, my body's like, we can't. Sorry. You were the glue and you tried to hold it together, but now you can't be the glue. Now you were like crazy glue, now you're like Elmer's. You're barely like the kindergarten glue, like you're not holding everything together for everyone anymore. You literally can't, and honestly, that has been really hard for me as a single mom who's responsible for my household, who's in over my head financially because, like I said, I got this apartment and the things that I have when I had a salaried big girl position and now I don't. I feel that like I can't stop though, because there's too many people responsible and that I'm responsible for. And at the same time, my body is like, but you will not live. You can't do the same thing you did when you were in your 20s. And so I've just felt this constant state of pressure of trying to actually live a balanced life and still make it out here in this big, crazy, and sometimes cruel world. But at the end of the day, I've recognized it's a lie that I have to be the glue to hold it all together, and I have to let myself actually rest so that I can live for my baby so I don't die of a heart attack. This is where it gets tricky, y'all, when you identify all of these lies that we have been raised with, but also that the society and culture keeps affirming for us, you know, because the beliefs become so automatic that we don't hear them. You know what I mean? Like it gets tricky because it's like it's just it's in bed in the culture. Because it runs in the background, it shapes our decisions. We're hearing the same feedback from our from our boo best friends. We're just hearing it affirmed on TV shows and in reality shows with these people who don't know what the hell they're talking about, and we listen to them like they know what they're talking about. It just becomes like one big emotional blur of lies. And of course, our brain is a pattern, our our brain is about pattern recognition. So if it sees, you know, some idiot on Love Island saying something like, Well, I just gotta, I gotta have a great body or else I'm not worth anything. And then we also see that affirmed all over the place and all the other things, our brain is gonna be like, you know what, uh, yeah, actually that's true. If I don't have a great body or a great career, then I'm not worth anything either. Just for example, I'm just pulling out the most low-hanging fruit. I think that we've all been susceptible to at some point. But y'all get the point, is that permeate down to ourselves. Let me tell y'all what I have done to combat this. The way that I personally have, I think, altered my life in significant ways. This is one of many, but this is a significant one, is through writing and journaling. And just so you know, there's research behind this. Using writing or expressive writing, or you know, putting your thoughts out on paper has been studied for decades, and it has been shown to help people process and reduce stress, to reduce ruminations and looping thoughts, which is something I struggle with deeply, and to make sense of our emotional experiences in a way that like helps our body release. And it's not magic or woo-woo, obviously. It's just something that gives our thoughts a place to go so that's not inside of us tormenting us. So if you think about how you can use writing to combat some of these lies, think about what has been externalized in you. When you put it out on paper, if you believe a lie that says I'm not worthy, and then you put that on paper, then you can look at it and just be like, What the fuck did I just say? Because you can actually look at it and question it. Is this true? This cannot be true. What the fuck do you mean I'm not worthy? And then you can question it and you can challenge it, and also you can name it. You could literally write, I feel like this is I'm not worthy, and then right next to that, that is not true. That's literally a lie from the pit of hell. I think a lot of people get really stuck with journaling because, well, number one, so many perfectionistic bitches out here. Number one, I can be too, so I say that with love. But because people think it has to be deep or poetic or shareworthy, I think, especially in this day and age of like everybody believing that like our hobbies have to be monetized. Y'all, journaling does not have to be a hobby, it does not have to be monetizable, it does not have to be shared or poetic or structured perfectly or whatever. The most beautiful thing you can do for yourself is give yourself a space to be honest and let it flow no matter what comes out. Know that it does not have to be profound, that nobody's ever gonna see it. You could destroy it afterwards if you want to, but it is your truth that you can examine. And sometimes just staring at a blank piece of paper can be very overwhelming, especially if you've never really had any sort of journal practice before. And that is where guided prompts can really help because it gives your brain somewhere to go. So instead of you writing a whole paragraph about how you don't feel worthy, there could be a prompt that says, Where do you think this thought came from? Where did it originate? Was it when you were 12 years old and someone told you blah blah blah? What happened in that moment? And as soon as you start doing that process, it can be so, so, so powerful. It just gives your brain somewhere to go with a little bit of direction. Something that really helped me a few years ago was called the Shadow Work Journal, and it was a lot of guided prompts, and it really helps me to get in touch with what I was feeling, especially when I was in those dark, dark, dark times in 22 and 23. That was on top of, let me be clear about this, years of journaling. Years. I started journaling, I think, really intensely when I was like 14 or 15. And I'm telling you, from that 14 to 22, 23 ish, period, when I was 14 years old to 22 years old, I I have a bin of those journals still. A bin. I mean, the bin is like you know, those plastic flips. Bins that are like two feet long and they're like you know a foot maybe yeah, maybe a foot uh deep that you put under your bed. I have one filled with those. I used to write everything actually on through my twenties, because when I was first married, I was journaling like crazy because it was such a crazy fucking experience. I was journaling the meanest stuff. So I just used it to get it out there. But I think like in my early 30s, I had a counselor or something that was just like, why don't you try some guided, guided journal, some guided prompts? Y'all, why do I have both cats up on me right now? I am really the old cat lady. If you're if you're watching on YouTube, you can see I have one in each, one on each leg. Good lord. So I started using guided prompts, but then once I went through a narcissistically and verbally abusive marriage, it became very clear to me that I needed really specific questions to work through what I was feeling because it was so overwhelming. The the absolute mindfuck of that kind of abuse. And then from there, I've used other ones. I've used the Silk and Saunder journal for a while, but it just became very pricey monthly as the prices went up. And then I've used Danielle Laporte's journal. She had a few that I absolutely loved. That was in like 2016, 2017, 2018. She actually discontinued it, but those were wonderful journals. Those were life-saving for me while I was in an abusive marriage. And Silk and Sonder, I really feel like was really life-saving for me when I was coming out of it. In terms of the kind of prompts and the ways that it kind of forced me to affirm myself, the questions it asked. Like, I'm I'm deeply grateful to Danielle Laporte for her journal. And I forgot that I think her name is Mia, who made Silk and Sonder. I'm grateful for the work that those women did with those journals because honestly, those got me through very extreme parts of my life. So a few years ago, I was like, I'd like to make a journal. Actually, not even a few years ago. I've always wanted to make my own, but I have struggled with imposter syndrome because these women have made such beautiful journals. But I was like, let me just get the process started. So I made a digital journal. It's called the Out Here Trying to Survive Journal, and I literally just got done with it last week. I started working on it a long time ago. I mean, literally, probably last summer. So it's been a good six, seven, eight, nine months. It is a digital product, it's 138 pages with guided prompts, and it's not just something that's pretty. Although, I mean, I did take some care to design it because I am kind of artistic. But I wanted to create something that helped you unlock patterns like I have unlocked when I've been in survival mode. And I wanted to create something that would help you with questions that will like get you out of autopilot. That's what has helped me in the past. Like as a multiple trauma survivor who experienced it in childhood and then again in adulthood in various different ways, is that you don't really learn or embody these things until they get out of you, until they're like I said, they're questioned and evaluated, and until you start writing it differently. So one thing that I have done, I've talked about before on this channel and in other places, is I started telling myself every day I love myself. You know, at times when I was using the Danielle Laporte journal, I was telling myself every day I am, and I would pick four or five things. I am this, this, this, this, this, and then I would also write, I am becoming this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And then when I was doing silk and sander every single day, y'all, every single day I was writing, I love you, Grace, and here is why. And I was coming up with at least one thing. For those of you watching, I actually still have some of my silk and sonders. It was a monthly journal, by the way. But each one of these, it started off as like$13.99, then it was like 14, then it was like 16, then it was like 20, then it was like 27, a month, by the way. I couldn't keep going, even though these are great journals, but um, yeah, every day it just has a lot of really good prompts and a lot of things to think about. And so I was just like, let me write in, you know, the top space of the daily, like that I love myself and how I love myself. And I would actually write out my gratitude every day, which is also another life-changing thing. So I included some of the things that I have loved about journaling that has been life-changing for me in this journal. A space to be thankful and express gratitude, a space to figure out like how am I feeling today? How am I even coming into today? What is my mood like today? You know, a space to free write and just get it all out there. Because sometimes that's like the most healing thing, but then you need some questions too. And sometimes topically is the best way to get at it. So this journal is topical. You're gonna look at how am I feeling about money? You know, how am I feeling about friendships, how am I feeling about romance? You know, you're gonna get at all of those things. Yeah, so if you've been in survival mode, sometimes you just need a place to start. You don't need to change your whole life, just start with journaling every day. It's literally that simple. So here's the cover of the journal I just made. Like I said, it's the signature out here trying to survive journal, and you can get it on my sand store in digital copy. I would like to get it in a print copy eventually, but I don't have that prepared yet. But you can literally download it into your iPad or iPhone, and you can either hand type your answers in, you can write them in with the Apple Pencil, or you can copy the answers onto your physical journal. Either way, it's just a small way that you can start unloading your brain in a way that gives you relief. I don't want y'all to be in survival mode, y'all. I don't want to live in survival mode anymore. I am really, really committed to not being in that place anymore. Even if it feels like the world is crumbling around us, I'm just not doing it. I just refuse. And something I still do every single day is I write myself a little one or two, three sentences at the end of every day of just what I thought experienced, something that stood out to me in the day, something that meant something to me, something I was mad about, something I was angry about, something I was happy about, something I loved, an experience I loved, a food I ate. I just every day write at least three sentences. And I try to every day start the day with gratitude, and I try to every day start the day with some affirmations. Every day start the day with a new thought. So that's what this journal is gonna give you space to do, and it really helps. It really helps. It keeps my brain in a place that even on my worst days, there's some little life-saving action that I can do just by writing down what I'm thinking and feeling. So, yeah, you can pick up my journal in my stand store. It's only$17, it's not very much. I wanted it to be affordable and something that you can use over and over again. Thank you so much for watching this episode. If you are an Apple, would you please do me a favor and give me five stars? If you're on Spotify, go ahead and hit the the five stars, leave me a review. And if you're on YouTube, would you please go ahead and like this post? Like this post right now, like this episode and give me some hype points. It's right under the comments. You can swipe over and give me hype points, y'all. Please hype me up. Please hype me up. So I can get this podcast out here. I'm really, really grateful for you guys. And finally, please sign up on Substack. That is my newsletter. I'm trying to write at least once a week, but hopefully three times a week. And they're actually written reflections and articles, not just about what I'm talking about here in the podcast, but just life in general. I've been enjoying writing again, so sign up for my Substack, which is the same name, out here trying to survive. And then when I have new products come out, you'll be first to hear about that as well. Thank you so much. I know y'all could be anywhere out here on these internet streets. So I'm so thankful that you've chosen to spend some time with me. And by the way, if there's anything that you ever want me to talk about on this podcast, send me an email. My email is outhirtrying to survive at gmail.com, and I'm very open to suggestions um about what you'd like to see. So thank you guys so much for being here. I love doing this podcast, and I'm so thankful for each and every person that listens to it or watches it. And I can't wait to see y'all in the next episode. Bye.